compl4xx <compl4xx(a)systemli.org> writes: I can help, but I don't have all the info needed, and some things might need some collective thinking. - All other entries have their own Wikipedia page. Might this be a blocker? Have you considered creating one? - Who should be listed as "Developer"? Is there such a thing as copyright for the code and/or brand? - When was the first public release? - Is there a count of "monthly active users"? - How to succintly express that no specific registration is required, but that an e-mail account is needed, in the column "Registration requirement"? Or just say "no" or leave blank? - I guess the license can be pulled from github, but if there are any gotchas it might be good to know. - Support for which operating systems should be listed as "Yes"? - How to express that there is E2EE only after the first message? How does that work exactly for group messages? - Are there any limitations for "file transfer" support or should that just be signaled as "yes"? Same question for voice recording. (i guess the answer is "not on DC side"? how to express that?) - No support for voice/video chats, right? - Read receipts = no, right? I wonder if someone has thought about ways to implement this feature for DC already. - No editing, nor deleting sent messages, right? - No "custom emojis"? (what in earth is that?) - No stickers? - No self destructing messages, correct? (that would be awesome, is currently my #1 needed privacy feature together with no contacts upload) - Screenshot protection? - Support for themes/skins? - Support for plugins? - No peer to peer text chats. - What to put in "Open source servers"? "Depends"? - Is "Yes" a sane answer for "Federated servers"? Many details needed!

Hi drebs, compl4xx :) while skimming your conversation a quick remark ... On Mon, Jan 06, 2020 at 03:04 +0100, compl4xx wrote: it can only be estimated -- F-Droid and apk downloads are not counted at all and eg in Cuba and elsewhere there are separate app stores that can not be accessed from the outside. sidenote: i'd be careful with using "Delta Chat" to designate an actor that can do or receive things -- there is the "app" and there are "developers", maybe merlinux as an organization, but "Delta Chat" per se does not exist :) "optional" sounds more like what Telegram does. DC does default to E2E, also for group messages. With verified groups you get guaranteed E2E also for groups so i guess it's ok to just say "yes" here. read receipts are "yes" by default. You can switch it off. probably that's a "no" if deleting means deleting on the receiving side. It's fine to focus on DC to DC usage here i think. So we can and will implement self-destruct messages althought he construction is likely to be "one-sided ephemeral messages" because we want to support asymmetric organization scenarios, i.e. one DC (desktop) user might organize a group and retain messages, while people in the field will switch on deletion on their phones. definitely "yes" ... postfix/dovecot/exim/... in many cases open source services are used even from commercial providers. cheers holger

thanks drebs! sounds good -- maybe except it isn't clear maybe that "registration: e-mail" does not mean a signup but using an existing e-mail account, and that technically, DC is a e-mail client/mua/app. holger On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 09:27 -0300, drebs wrote: > Hi, so taking into account both answers, here's current state of this > (with only 2 questions before I can add the line to the page): > > Client: > > DeltaChat (with a link to https://delta.chat -- all other entries > have a wikipedia page) > > Developer > > "Delta Chat contributors" > > (I wonder if "Merlinux" wouldn't make more sense here, as it's > listed as such in Google Play and as all other open source projects > surely also have contributors but either list individuals or > companies) > > First public release > > August 14, 2018 > > Active users|Monthly active users > > - > > Registration requirement > > Email > > Software license|License > > GPLv3 > > Operating system > > Windows, macOS, Linux, Android, iOS. > > E2EE 2-user chat > > Yes > > E2EE group chat > > Yes > > File transfer > > Yes > > Voice recording > > Yes > > Voice chat > > No > > Video chat > > No > > Read receipts > > Yes > > Editing sent messages > > No > > Deleting sent messages > > No > > Custom emoji > > No > > Sticker (messaging)|Stickers > > No > > Self-destructing messages > > No > > Screenshot protection > > No > > Themes / skins > > Yes > > Plugins > > No > > Peer-to-peer text chat > > No > > Open source servers > > Yes > > Should we add a note here saying that these are 3rd parties > (i.e. not maintained by DeltaChat)? > > Federated servers > > Yes > > -- > > holger krekel <holger(a)merlinux.eu> writes: > > > Hi drebs, compl4xx :) > > > > while skimming your conversation a quick remark ... > > > > On Mon, Jan 06, 2020 at 03:04 +0100, compl4xx wrote: > >> > - Is there a count of "monthly active users"? > >> No. There is no way to measure this. Hm, we could ask the NSA?^^ I'd > >> just leave out the number, many other messengers don't have it either. > > > > it can only be estimated -- F-Droid and apk downloads are not counted at all > > and eg in Cuba and elsewhere there are separate app stores that can not > > be accessed from the outside. > > > >> > - How to succintly express that no specific registration is > >> > required, but that an e-mail account is needed, in the column > >> > "Registration requirement"? Or just say "no" or leave blank? > >> Let's just say "Email". No need to make it complicated; and it does > >> require an Email address to work, even if it's not transmitted to Delta > >> Chat. > > > > sidenote: i'd be careful with using "Delta Chat" to designate an actor that > > can do or receive things -- there is the "app" and there are "developers", > > maybe merlinux as an organization, but "Delta Chat" per se does not exist :) > > > >> > - I guess the license can be pulled from github, but if there are > >> > any gotchas it might be good to know. > >> It's GPLv3+ for Desktop & Android - but iOS might be another issue. > >> There is no license on GitHub, probably because GPLv3 is incompatible > >> with the Apple Appstore. Not sure what license is planned for the iOS > >> app; for now let's just say GPLv3+. > >> > - Support for which operating systems should be listed as "Yes"? > >> Windows, MacOS, Linux, Android, iOS. There is no web client. > >> > - How to express that there is E2EE only after the first message? > >> > How does that work exactly for group messages? > >> "Optional" fits best for both 2-user and group chats, I think. Or maybe > >> "Opportunistic", if we can just fill in what we want? > > > > "optional" sounds more like what Telegram does. DC does default to E2E, > > also for group messages. With verified groups you get guaranteed E2E > > also for groups so i guess it's ok to just say "yes" here. > > > >> > - Are there any limitations for "file transfer" support or should > >> > that just be signaled as "yes"? Same question for voice > >> > recording. (i guess the answer is "not on DC side"? how to express > >> > that?) > >> Let's just say "Yes". (Most of) the other IMs also have size limitations > >> here. > >> > - No support for voice/video chats, right? > >> Nope, not yet. > >> > - Read receipts = no, right? I wonder if someone has thought about > >> > ways to implement this feature for DC already. > >> Yes, there are read receipts, they can be turned on in the settings :) > > > > read receipts are "yes" by default. You can switch it off. > > > >> > - No editing, nor deleting sent messages, right? > >> Editing No, Deleting... partial I'd say? > > > > probably that's a "no" if deleting means deleting on the receiving side. > > > >> > - No "custom emojis"? (what in earth is that?) > >> > >> Custom emojis are emojis you can add & edit yourself, I think :) we > >> don't support that (yet). > >> > >> > - No stickers? > >> > >> Stickers are almost ready in the desktop client... let's leave that out > >> for now. > >> > >> > - No self destructing messages, correct? (that would be awesome, is > >> > currently my #1 needed privacy feature together with no contacts > >> > upload) > >> Not yet, no... people are thinking about how to best implement that. > >> It's hard to force the other side to delete them; especially if they > >> don't use Delta, but a different E-Mail client. > > > > It's fine to focus on DC to DC usage here i think. So we can and will > > implement self-destruct messages althought he construction is likely > > to be "one-sided ephemeral messages" because we want to support > > asymmetric organization scenarios, i.e. one DC (desktop) user might organize > > a group and retain messages, while people in the field will switch on deletion on > > their phones. > > > >> > - Screenshot protection? > >> Nope. > >> > - Support for themes/skins? > >> Yes, there is dark mode :) > >> > - Support for plugins? > >> Nope. > >> > - No peer to peer text chats. > >> Nope. > >> > - What to put in "Open source servers"? "Depends"? > >> Yes, there are Open Source servers. Whoever cares about this feature > >> will use them. > > > > definitely "yes" ... postfix/dovecot/exim/... in many cases open source services > > are used even from commercial providers. > > > > cheers > > holger > _______________________________________________ > delta mailing list -- delta(a)codespeak.net > To unsubscribe send an email to delta-leave(a)codespeak.net

Done, and DC is the first because of lexicographic order. ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_cross-platform_instant_messagin… https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Comparison_of_cross-platform_ins… Can someone please review? -- compl4xx <compl4xx(a)systemli.org> writes: > Hi :) looks good. answers inline: > >>> Developer >>> >>> "Delta Chat contributors" >>> >>> (I wonder if "Merlinux" wouldn't make more sense here, as it's >>> listed as such in Google Play and as all other open source projects >>> surely also have contributors but either list individuals or >>> companies) > It wouldn't. Merlinux is funding a part of the development. But it's not > the heart of the project. >>> Open source servers >>> >>> Yes >>> >>> Should we add a note here saying that these are 3rd parties >>> (i.e. not maintained by DeltaChat)? > > I don't think that's necessary. Let's keep it simple :) > > Thanks again for taking care of this! > > compl4xx > > > _______________________________________________ > delta mailing list -- delta(a)codespeak.net > To unsubscribe send an email to delta-leave(a)codespeak.net

Oh, yes, that counts for Android I would say. On Desktop you can't prevent it anyway; I don't know about iOS. On 13.01.20 16:01, Der Mor wrote:

It was published, great work! I changed the Screenshot Protection to "partial". Thanks a lot,     compl4xx On 13.01.20 17:04, drebs wrote: